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Jason (ABRP)

Alpha Feedback - Nissan Leaf

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On 12/4/2018 at 7:54 PM, Jason (ABRP) said:

As a matter of fact, we do take that into account! We used charts like the ones published by Fastned (link) to create the charge curves for the various Leaf models.  It should be very close to what you actually experience in the vehicle.  I will also note that we don't take battery temperature into account when charging yet.  Sometime in the future, perhaps.

Hi Jason could you check this trip https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=bca37b23-8b8b-49fd-a2f0-c03f6c2355b9

ABRT plans the charge to last 24 minutes. But it's impossible. 

Another point, by default ABRP use 50kw for all charger, but in reality, it's rarely more than 44kw.

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On 5/8/2019 at 3:00 AM, Jason (ABRP) said:

When I have some time I need to work through the analysis of the Leaf Data that's been sent in to see if I can build a real-world model from what I have access to.  Since the LeafSpy data is somewhat limited, it'll be interesting to see what the results are.

This would be extremely interesting to see @Jason (ABRP) :) The reason many of us provide the data is to try to help improve the model. (But we understand that LeafSpy data is not optimal)

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On 5/17/2019 at 2:19 AM, Benja said:

Hi Jason could you check this trip https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=bca37b23-8b8b-49fd-a2f0-c03f6c2355b9

ABRT plans the charge to last 24 minutes. But it's impossible. 

Another point, by default ABRP use 50kw for all charger, but in reality, it's rarely more than 44kw.

Interesting, my charge curves look okay, and working my math, it looks like 10-80% should be about 40min, which lines up with the official Nissan guidance:

image.png.98d96917fbc495976d82a0f10fdc7268.png

I noticed you set your degradation to 25%, which we handle by reducing the capacity of the battery, which I suspect means we cut your charge times by the same amount - since there's less battery to fill.  I'll spend some time following that logic through and see if there are any improvements to be made.  

10 hours ago, Jilldris said:

This would be extremely interesting to see @Jason (ABRP) :) The reason many of us provide the data is to try to help improve the model. (But we understand that LeafSpy data is not optimal)

Heh, the main reason I've been putting it off is because it requires me to rework the analysis so that it can be run without direct power data.  Right now, all other vehicles provide power and speed, LeafSpy doesn't, and that makes the analysis a lot different (right now we just compare power to speed and build the model based on that, since that's what we need for driving models.)

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2 hours ago, Jason (ABRP) said:

Heh, the main reason I've been putting it off is because it requires me to rework the analysis so that it can be run without direct power data.  Right now, all other vehicles provide power and speed, LeafSpy doesn't, and that makes the analysis a lot different (right now we just compare power to speed and build the model based on that, since that's what we need for driving models.)

Ok! Understand that you don't have time for everything. Is amazed of all functionality you manage to add to ABRP.

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On 11/9/2018 at 4:17 PM, Jason (ABRP) said:

To verify and improve our models we need your feedback.  There's many ways we could use help if you actually own one:

  • Drive a plan and compare it to the actual battery used.
  • Drive a plan with the browser active, and update your actual battery percentage in the browser.
  • Contribute data via OBD or other methods.

The best way to improve the data is to provide data directly from the car.  For the Leaf, we're working with the LeafSpy developer to add what we need to the logging.  In the meantime, you can follow these instructions to set up data logging, but you'll have to keep LeafSpy open in the foreground to log.

Thanks for providing feedback!

Trajet SAUTEL (09300) GRUISSAN PLAGE (11) DE 100 % à 34 % 

Moyenne de consommation 15,3 Kw/h

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Hi

I'm about to receive me 62 kwh Leaf, and I tried a route that includes a 100 kW charger, but it seems like the charging speed is the same as a 50 kW.

I haven't checked so this is purely speculations.

Great work on abrp, a suggestion from me is to create a 62 kwh leaf with a 50 kW charger,  as it is possible to but the N-Connecta with only 50 kW charger. 

Hoping to be able to provide you with data soon.

Regards 

Lasse

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2 hours ago, Lasse D said:

Hi

I'm about to receive me 62 kwh Leaf, and I tried a route that includes a 100 kW charger, but it seems like the charging speed is the same as a 50 kW.

I haven't checked so this is purely speculations.

Great work on abrp, a suggestion from me is to create a 62 kwh leaf with a 50 kW charger,  as it is possible to but the N-Connecta with only 50 kW charger. 

Hoping to be able to provide you with data soon.

Regards 

Lasse

At the moment we have no data on how the 62kWh Leaf will perform, but we did boost the charge curve by a little (assuming it has a similar shape to the 40kWh leaf curve, just charges faster).  It should have a similar SoC time profile, but since it's a bigger battery it means a higher power (kW) at each step.  

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Charging Takes Longer for 24kwh leaf when battery degradation is above 25 %. For example when it's 25C outside it took 30 minutes to charge from 13% to 97% even when the battery temperature was optimal. Example Route: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=2672ce3c-894c-4169-a916-35bfa72965d6

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I've been clicking on your link on how to do  data logging and it just gives me an error.  I'm going to do a 700 km trip tomorrow and would gladly give you the data, if you want it.  Your planner suggests that my second charge tomorrow will be the same amount of time as the first charge.  I know from experience that the second, third etc, all take at least twice as long as the first.  In North America (especially Canada) I don't have access to the rapid gate fix. Let me know if my 2018 (40kw with rapid gate) data is wanted.

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On 6/12/2019 at 4:04 PM, Jake said:

I've been clicking on your link on how to do  data logging and it just gives me an error.  I'm going to do a 700 km trip tomorrow and would gladly give you the data, if you want it.  Your planner suggests that my second charge tomorrow will be the same amount of time as the first charge.  I know from experience that the second, third etc, all take at least twice as long as the first.  In North America (especially Canada) I don't have access to the rapid gate fix. Let me know if my 2018 (40kw with rapid gate) data is wanted.

Ah, I'll double check the link, but it's on the planner now.  Under Settings > More Settings > Live Data > Setup (make sure you have the right car selected).  The instructions should be pretty quick!

We'll take all the data we can get! We're still working on getting enough data to start taking battery temperature into account (still don't understand why Nissan doesn't cool their batteries...), but that takes a lot more data to characterize because of the large number of factors that go into that.

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10 hours ago, Jason (ABRP) said:

We're still working on getting enough data to start taking battery temperature into account

This You Tuber has some videos on Leaf 40 battery temps etc which my be of some help:

 

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I'd like to draw your attention to this particular plan ID:

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=8409f5e3-58a9-4dad-a045-7abd0aa44f1a

Here, we see that ABP completely ignores the fact that I'd be charging at the Bear Street parkade, and am willing to turn around, go back to Golden Town Centre for a 100% charge, then attempt again to go to Calgary. 

ABP says that I'd arrive in Banff with a 38% charge from the 100% charge I'd leave Golden, so this is likely correct, but then completely ignores any charging.

I recall that this was not part of the algorithm a few weeks ago, say at the beginning of June or sometime in May.

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Hi everyone,

took my first road trip yesterday on my new 2019 Leaf 40. Trip id is 0ca91ba6-82ee-4112-9388-bdc8ae06dcf6. I used Leaf pro to upload live data to follow the trip  

Comments: 

• my dash SoC display is always 1-2% under what’s reported by ABRP. 

• predicted power consumption was spot on. 

• battery charge time was fairly accurate for the first charge but not the second one probably due to battery temperature. By then battery was at 39 C and the car charged at 27KW instead of 50KW. I think i was able to upload charging data. 

Last leg of the trip was complicated by lack of cell phone coverage, though the SoC at arrival was within a few percent of that predicted. 

Overall happy with ABRP. I have a few questions that I will bring to the support board. 

 

Christophe

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22 hours ago, Christophe said:

Hi everyone,

took my first road trip yesterday on my new 2019 Leaf 40. Trip id is 0ca91ba6-82ee-4112-9388-bdc8ae06dcf6. I used Leaf pro to upload live data to follow the trip  

Comments: 

• my dash SoC display is always 1-2% under what’s reported by ABRP. 

 • predicted power consumption was spot on. 

 • battery charge time was fairly accurate for the first charge but not the second one probably due to battery temperature. By then battery was at 39 C and the car charged at 27KW instead of 50KW. I think i was able to upload charging data. 

Last leg of the trip was complicated by lack of cell phone coverage, though the SoC at arrival was within a few percent of that predicted. 

Overall happy with ABRP. I have a few questions that I will bring to the support board. 

 

Christophe

  1. This is a known issue, and probably not something we can solve readily, since the displayed SoC is not reported to us, only the raw SoC.  Several users worked with me upthread to try to figure out the adjustments to compute the Displayed SoC from the raw SoC and other parameters we are provided by LeafSpy, so probably as good as it's going to get.  Important to note that 0% is not actually 0% on the Leaf, and you can actually draw another 5-10% battery after you hit 0 in limp mode.
  2. Glad to hear it!
  3. This is also a known issue, and something we're hoping to address eventually, mainly due to not having good data on how charge speed is affected by battery temperature.  Someday we'll get that accounted for!
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3 hours ago, Christophe said:

Jason, what is the best way to help you with #3?

Regards,

Christophe

Drive with LeafSpy active and sending data to ABRP, it's also something we have to figure out the best way to model so that it doesn't overcomplicate the planning process (and cause a huge increase in time to create a plan) but still provide accurate plans.

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On 7/2/2019 at 8:59 AM, Christophe said:

Hi everyone,

took my first road trip yesterday on my new 2019 Leaf 40. Trip id is 0ca91ba6-82ee-4112-9388-bdc8ae06dcf6. I used Leaf pro to upload live data to follow the trip  

Comments: 

• my dash SoC display is always 1-2% under what’s reported by ABRP. 

 • predicted power consumption was spot on. 

 • battery charge time was fairly accurate for the first charge but not the second one probably due to battery temperature. By then battery was at 39 C and the car charged at 27KW instead of 50KW. I think i was able to upload charging data. 

 Last leg of the trip was complicated by lack of cell phone coverage, though the SoC at arrival was within a few percent of that predicted. 

 Overall happy with ABRP. I have a few questions that I will bring to the support board. 

  

Christophe

Wow, charging had slowed down for only the second charge of the day? Did you charge to 77% like ABRP suggested, or did you add more?

I've heard that gentle driving and lower SOC fast charges to keep the battery temperature low are the way to go for multi-stage drives like this. Ref: 

 

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52 minutes ago, Ernie said:

Wow, charging had slowed down for only the second charge of the day? Did you charge to 77% like ABRP suggested, or did you add more?

I've heard that gentle driving and lower SOC fast charges to keep the battery temperature low are the way to go for multi-stage drives like this

 

From memory I charged to somewhere between 77 and 80% on the first charge. 

I did not drive fast, around 100km/h on the freeway but the second leg was mostly hills and ambiant temperature was rather high, around 30-32 C. 

Thanks for the video link, I will check it out and get ready for the next trip. 

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Is it a known issue when planning routes on the Nissan LEAF that the charge "cost" is always $1.00 at Electrify America stations? See: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=1aca0b42-3d7d-400f-93b1-9c77b27f4318

I've also found the charging time estimates to be *very* optimistic in Texas. Even the 1st charge at ambient temps above 90 degrees are throttled back to 20 kW in our 2019 LEAF 62 kWh.

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On 8/5/2019 at 2:07 PM, irwinr said:

Is it a known issue when planning routes on the Nissan LEAF that the charge "cost" is always $1.00 at Electrify America stations? See: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=1aca0b42-3d7d-400f-93b1-9c77b27f4318

I've also found the charging time estimates to be *very* optimistic in Texas. Even the 1st charge at ambient temps above 90 degrees are throttled back to 20 kW in our 2019 LEAF 62 kWh.

The 1$ charge was a bug, and should be resolved now.  At the moment we do no battery thermal modelling, which would be required to account for the Leaf's poor cooling performance (Or complete lack of cooling, to be more accurate).  We take the "ideal" case at the moment, but if the consensus here is different, I'm happy to reduce the performance in the model to represent something closer to the "average" case.

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Regards this

On 7/3/2019 at 4:21 PM, Jason (ABRP) said:
  1. This is a known issue, and probably not something we can solve readily, since the displayed SoC is not reported to us, only the raw SoC.  Several users worked with me upthread to try to figure out the adjustments to compute the Displayed SoC from the raw SoC and other parameters we are provided by LeafSpy, so probably as good as it's going to get.  Important to note that 0% is not actually 0% on the Leaf, and you can actually draw another 5-10% battery after you hit 0 in limp mode.

You can see this graph:

file.php?id=8072Blue line is SOC show in the dashboard. The gold line is the SOC from LeafSpy. This from Leaf 24kWh (but also valid for 30kWh version).

RAW data:

% SOC ------ % SOC --------------- %
Dash -----  LEAFSPY ---------GIDS
100 ----------- 97 ------------84,3
95 ----------- 93,2 --------- 80,4
90 ----------- 88,9 --------- 76,2
85 ----------- 84,5 --------- 71,9
80 ----------- 79,8 ---------- 68
75 ----------- 75,8 ---------- 63,7
70 ----------- 71,6 ---------- 59,4
65 ----------- 67,3 ---------- 55,2
60 ----------- 63,1 ---------- 50,9
55 ----------- 58,8 ---------- 47
50 ----------- 56,9 --------- 44,8
45 ----------- 50,2 ---------- 38,4
40 ----------- 46,5 -----------34,2
35 ----------- 42,1 ----------- 30,2
30 ----------- 37,9 ---------- 26
25 ----------- 33,8 ----------- 21,7 
20 ----------- 29,2 ----------- 17,8
15 ----------- 23,1 ----------- 13,5
10 ----------- 16,6 ----------- 9,3
5 ----------- 13,4 ----------- 5,3

I hope that this can help you.

 

By(t)e

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Hi -

I just completed a round trip in my 2015 24kwh Leaf SV.

This was a round trip between 401 Hermosa Dr SE, Albuquerque, NM 87108 USA and the town of Madrid, NM. Google maps shows this as an 84 miles roundtrip.

I drove the posted speed limits along the route and avoided the interstate highway.

The starting charge was 100% and returning charge was 19% with a mid-point charge in Madrid of 41%. My battery's state of health shows 87% with LeafSpy Pro.

Your model was a bit conservative. It showed a return charge of 15% if I limited myself to 60kph. I drove, on average, around 85kph and returned with a bit more charge than the model predicted (ie. 19%).

Thanks,
Gregg LaPore
 

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On 11/9/2018 at 4:17 PM, Jason (ABRP) said:

To verify and improve our models we need your feedback.  There's many ways we could use help if you actually own one:

  • Drive a plan and compare it to the actual battery used.
  • Drive a plan with the browser active, and update your actual battery percentage in the browser.
  • Contribute data via OBD or other methods.

The best way to improve the data is to provide data directly from the car.  For the Leaf, we're working with the LeafSpy developer to add what we need to the logging.  In the meantime, you can follow these instructions to set up data logging, but you'll have to keep LeafSpy open in the foreground to log.

Thanks for providing feedback!

I'm new to this site, and I used the planner for the first time last week.
Yesterday I drove this plan (https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=bf0370bd-721c-401b-9c96-42e9e55eb5bc).
The planner is very accurate in battery usage. But the time it took to fast-charge for the second time was 35mins instead of the planned 21 mins.

I hardly do any long trips, so I'm not familiar with multiple fast-charge sessions in 1 trip. But if the second fast-charge sessions takes about 1,5 time longer than planned, it would be better to extend the first session up to 80%??
 

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