Alpha Feedback - Renault Zoe

[Bo-ABRP]

To verify and improve our models we need your feedback.  There's many ways we could use help if you actually own one:

• Drive a plan and compare it to the actual battery used.
• Drive a plan with the browser active, and update your actual battery percentage in the browser.
• Contribute data via OBD or other methods.

The best way to improve the data is to provide data directly from the car.  Connecting your car not only improves the models, but allows you to follow up directly in the car while driving! We have several ways of doing that, but we need your help to figure out what will work with your car:

• An OBD reader can be used in concert with a custom app like LeafSpy, or a PID list and Torque Pro.
• If your manufacturer has an API to access data from the car we can set up access to that API, like we do for Tesla

If you're familiar with either of these, contact me at jason@abetterrouteplanner.com and I'll help figure out what we need to do to connect your car!

Thanks for providing feedback!

[perkabolo]

Going on a roadtrip tomorrow. What's the best way of reporting from my Zoe? 

[perkabolo]

Is this at all helpful? https://github.com/edent/Renault-Zoe-API

[Brian D]

The Zoe has a custom app for reading the data, called CanZE. Google Play.

How can we use this to provide data? Also, would it be possible to get a Renault Zoe sub-forum?

 

EDIT: if you look at the settings on CanZE it allows for logging of the data to the sdcard. I'm not sure if the format is suitable though.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Brian D

[perkabolo]

I have some logs from canze from today's trip. The predictions from abrp worked perfectly! 

data-2018-12-30-13-09-48.log

Edited December 30, 2018 by perkabolo

[Jason-ABRP]

Glad to hear we were pretty close on our prediction! Does CanZE allow logging to a server? That'd be ideal, as it would allow you to follow along with the plan in the car.  We've been aware of the Zoe API, just never had enough time to implement it for the site.  Do you know if the API can access car data while driving? It's very nice to build a plan and follow along with that plan while driving, to see how well it matches.

[Brian D]

Yes, well actually I found that the route planner was showing worse consumption (I drive eco) for me but I adjusted it slightly and then it was accurate. The only other data I had given was SoC, temperature, and degradation. The lattter was important as my car has the common Zoe 22 BMS bug which shows greater degradation (mine is 32% but not really). Trying to get Renault to do the update, but it was helpful that the routeplanner allows for degradation.

I will wait until after the update before submitting data, but it's one thing to keep in mind for your Q210 & R240 data as some of those cars may be impacted. I will check in the output on CanZE to see if it identifies the BMS version. That may help you to have cleaner data for the 22kWh models.

I'm not sure that the API will allow frequent enough polling. Even on their own website ZE Services, the polling is minutes. For CanZE I can't see an option in settings for logging to a server. Here's their website for some more info - https://canze.fisch.lu.

[perkabolo]

As Brian said. Not possible to log to a server from CanZE today. Not sure about the limitations in polling time for the Zoe API. I belive renaults own ZE app has a 20 minute limit. How often do you need to poll in order for it to be meaningful?

Did a drive back yesterday, not as good a match as on the way up, but strong winds and limited speed beacuse of traffic made it almost impossible to get all the factors right. But still not more than maybe 5% off.

[Brian D]

@perkabolo I checked it out and I found it more accurate by pushing the Reference Consumption from 4.76km/kWh to 5km/kWh. This is 5%!

Now, it depends how you drive of course. I tend to try use regen to my advantage as much as possible, generally slow and steady but some bursts to get up to speed fast.

 

Out of interest, I turned on the sdcard dump for CanZE and it's saving multiple points on various SID's per second.

[Jason-ABRP]

Ideally, I'd need no slower than once per minute to follow a plan, that's still a pretty slow update rate.  I've asked the CanZE developer about adding server logging, but they weren't very receptive.  If you wanted to ask as well, demonstrate user desire for the feature, that might help.  I just need them to send a Rest-like request, something like:

http://abetterrouteplanner.com:4441/leaf40?user=jason%40abetterrouteplanner.com&Lat=29.57367706298828&Long=-95.02268981933594&Elv=-21.156829833984375&SOC=96.4375&Amb=85.1&ChrgMode=0&ChrgPwr=0

Should be pretty easy to implement if they were so inclined.

[perkabolo]

Opened a feature request with the CanZE team. 

https://github.com/fesch/CanZE/issues/511

[Brian D]

@Jason (ABRP) would you be able to share a graph of the consumption on the Zoe in your model? I'm interested to see how it compares at lower speeds.

[Jason-ABRP]

At the moment the driving model is analytical, it's only slightly based on real-world data.  As a result, it tends to be the most accurate in the region where we calibrate it (110km/h), and divergent elsewhere until we get real-world data (CanZE or plan-following in your phone, correcting it using the battery display).

So yes, I could share it, but I'm not sure how accurate it'd be at lower speeds.

[Nufkin]

Any chance of getting it so we can filter by AC rapid charging? All the other standards are available but AC 43kW isn't. 

[Pudderjagar]

I cant find an option for choosing minimum chargingspeed. Today you have everything from 2kw til 43 kw for Zoe and for DC chargers there are from 50 to 350kw. Its faster to use 43kw instead of using 22kw if there are 43kw on the route. Maybe you have to stop one more time but its still faster.

[Brian D]

I was so happy to discover you're now supporting the Zoe via EV Notify! I've just set it up for my Q210. As EV Notify is only pulling the SOC, the route planner won't work with live data. What's happening is that the SOH is coming in at 0 and then I guess there's no battery to use for the plan. :)

Example from mine below. Well, maybe it will take speed but I didn't check as I was driving.

[Jason-ABRP]

Definitely a little bug there, had assumed it would simply not exist, but if it reports a null value you get the result you have there.  If you refresh it should behave itself now.  Thanks for the report!

[GingerBrigham]

I found the planner very good in a recent long trip. It reduced my manually planned stops from 3 to 2 and was accurate enough to give me confidence to go further for longer between charges. I love the fact that it recommends a slower speed if the distance to next charger is big (A69 is a perfect example) and it worked flawlessly. My only 2 questions is can it be edited to change max charge time at an Ecotricity charger? It tells me to charge for 58 minutes on a recent plan but Eco have a 45 minute charge time limit and then you have to start a new session. 

Also, I have CanZE but the OBD on a Zoe is accessed via WiFi which means I lose internet/data access whilst using as the phone thinks it’s on a WiFi network. I would love to link live data from the car while using the planner to drive. 

 

Great service, when is the app?

thanks

[Brian D]

Thanks Jason! all good now. My input degradation has saved and it's now planning routes again.

[Ferny]

Dear Jason,

I am the owner of a ZOE R90 41kWh and I am testing your nice route planner. First of all thank you for what you realized! I would like to connect your App to my OBD bluetooth reader (it is an OBD Link-LX) to get live telemetry of the SOC, could you please send me a simple procedure and the name of the Apps I should load on my tablet whenever they are needed? I tried to start the OBD interface (it is working well with CanZe) but no live data are appearing. Furthermore, if this is of your interest, I can provide telemetry of the ZOE (power, consumption and more) recorded at different constant speed on an almost flat route because there is a nice highway ring around Rome where the logging of these parameters is taken on a loop route that is balancing the light climbs and falls.

Cheers and thank you 

 

Fernando

[edgarw]

Zoe Z.E. 50 charging (blue Ionity charger screen to the right)
Bjørn Nyland says the 52 kWh figure is gross capacity while net it's only about 45 kWh.

 

[Bart de Boer]

Just got our Zoe 50. Consumption in current conditions here in NL is way higher than expected: I have to set the ref consumption to 230 Wh to get a predection that's close to my actual consumption on a very varied drive this morning. I've set everything up OK, even ignored a little tailwind on the first leg (which was side wind on the second leg).

Drive had a bit of big city streets (50 km/h), and about 45% national roads (80), 45% freeway (100, 120 and 130). Didn't speed or drive 'aggressivly' at all, nor was I extremely eco.

It was about 0 degrees celcius, and I did preheat the car (from battery, not outlet) for about 10 min before starting. It was foggy so roads were mostly wet.

These were the settings I used to get a prediction (afterwards) that closely matches the actual SoC at both destinations (start at 98%, arrive at 75%, arrive with 55%).

I think (and HOPE!) that the Zoe is extremely temperature sensitive, and that the consumption will be quiet a bit lower in better months.... Otherwise, the 380 km WLTP radius is mega bullshit. On my mixed drive, the total range would have been about 270 km today.

Renault does have a API to talk to the car, are there any plans for an integration in ABRP?



 

[Jqh]

Same here in France with a fresh new ZOE 50 with 17" wheel: to match real life I have to set-up consumption to 240 at least (sometime more).

BUT for me, it is related to temp, here it is 3°C these days. And from my own experience when this ZOE got a battery under 12°C, regenerative power is cap to -22kW.

I am waiting warm days to confirm it. Plus, huge battery does not heat itself while driving.. so Renault should maybe reduce protective power level with cold climate and add a better preheat.

[Jqh]

After many trips, I can confirm impact of a cold battery.

So, actual consumption (200Wh/km at 110 km/h) store into model match a relatively hot battery (>12°C).

From my own experience, to get this temp with minus temp outside, it needs at least 50km. And after that, model based on a 250Wh/km consumption can be replace by the actual one stored into abrp (200Wh/km).

Plus, cold weather also change battery capacity and after long trips, nominal battery pack capacity I can observe:

• ~45kW from -10 to 0°C (15% battery degradation)
• 48kW from 0 to 15°C (8% battery degradation)
• 52kW above 15°C

 

[Martin72]

I played around with your routeplanner since i shortly have an electric ZOE.
I try to be as quick as possible, charge only at home if possible. Or use 11/22 kW chargers on walking distance (1 km = 10/15 minutes) nearby destination if I stay there for a longer time (> 1h)

I noticed on my 2x81 km trip-planning (home - destination - home) I can be back home in 1:47 by changing max speed to 115 km/h. (total 205 Wh/km)

However, if I put max speed to 130 km/h (and slower if needed)  the website plans it in 1:57 by automatic max speed limiting to 100 km/h to the first waypoint (81 km, 57 minutes, 39% consumption) and change the second part to back-roads and no speed limiting (also 81 km, but more 80km/h-roads, 59 minutes, 46% consumption). (total 195Wh/km)

 

Why?
- Is the outcome not always the fastest total trip time.
- Not also automatic changing the max speed to the second way-point.