Alpha Feedback - Audi e-tron

[Bo-ABRP]

To verify and improve our models we need your feedback.  There's many ways we could use help if you actually own one:

• Drive a plan and compare it to the actual battery used.
• Drive a plan with the browser active, and update your actual battery percentage in the browser.
• Contribute data via OBD or other methods.

The best way to improve the data is to provide data directly from the car.  Connecting your car not only improves the models, but allows you to follow up directly in the car while driving! We have several ways of doing that, but we need your help to figure out what will work with your car:

• An OBD reader can be used in concert with a custom app like LeafSpy, or a PID list and Torque Pro.
• If your manufacturer has an API to access data from the car we can set up access to that API, like we do for Tesla

If you're familiar with either of these, contact me at jason@abetterrouteplanner.com and I'll help figure out what we need to do to connect your car!

Thanks for providing feedback!

[Herman]

Hi. I ordered an Audi e-tron, delivery in June. Looking forward to connect with ABRP. 
Is there a way to connect this routeplanner to the car? Or do I have to manually input all the stops of a trip?

[Jason-ABRP]

Yes and no:

Car --> ABRP - We currently don't know of a way to get Audi E-Tron data into ABRP.  For other cars we've got OBD apps, or app interfaces that allow you to follow your plan with live data from the car.  Of course, if you find a way to access that data, let us know and we'll incorporate it!

ABRP --> Car - This one is easier.  Presumably the E-Tron will have Android Auto / CarPlay, so you have a couple of options.  I personally really like Google Maps navigation, so I put my phone on a mount to the side of the main screen in my Bolt.  Plug it in to launch Android Auto, then unlock the phone and launch ABRP.  Once I have my plan up in ABRP, I hit Share > Share Next Step.  This opens the next step (Charger, waypoint, whatever) in Google Maps (or Waze, or whatever is your default).  Once you start driving, ABRP enters driving mode automatically.  

If you have live car data, the driving mode follows the plan with a graph and predictions of your arrival Charge %.  Since we don't know of a way to get live car data for the E-Tron, we have an estimation mode, with a large battery icon that tells you what we think your charge % currently is, and you can adjust it up or down to match your actual %.  You can try this out right now in your current vehicle if you want.  This does two things, it updates your arrival estimate, and offers replanning if you won't make it to your destination, and it helps us make the driving model better so we produce more accurate plans in the future.

Hopefully that answers your question!

[ev_driver]

Based on the recent e-tron EPA range numbers and video reviews that include consumption, could you update the (alpha) e-tron default consumption values to a more accurate 425 wh/km (@65mph)? 

[Jason-ABRP]

Good suggestion, though 425Wh/km is not realistic.  Everything I'm seeing shows realistic consumption going to around 254 Wh/km (typo on your post perhaps?) Anyway, set the consumption values for the E-Tron to match.  A little worse than my original estimate, but not by much!

 

[ev_driver]

Jason,

Yes, it was a typo, I meant Wh/mi (not Wh/km).  The EPA mixed driving rating is 409Wh/mi (83.5kwh usable pack capacity/204mile range).  At a constant 65mph, the consumption is a bit higher.  I recommend 425Wh/mi based on all the data that I've been following.  I override the value in the planner with this value and I think it gives fairly accurate results.  Of course, logging real world data will be best when its available.

[Jason-ABRP]

Sounds good, I'll bump it up to 425Wh/mi @65mph, let me know if that more closely matches your experience.  Thanks for taking the time to help refine the model!

[logic]

The charging curve for customer vehicles is a bit different to the charging curve of the known test vehicles. See here:

https://youtu.be/8ng1-TDJx8k?t=310

[Jason-ABRP]

@logic - That's great, I'll get that incorporated soon!

[ev_driver]

FYI, that charging curve may not be accurate because it may have been initiated after a 200kph autobahn test run.  The initial heat build up in the pack may not be representative of average highway usage.

Edited April 14, 2019 by ev_driver

[maitrefrodon]

Hello, 

J'ai le nouveau audi e—tron, j 'ai du régler sur 225 wh/km à 110km/h pour que mon grand trajet de 280km (Martigny-Croix, Genève et retour) corresponde, ainsi je suis au pourcent près à l' arrivée à Genève (57% restant) et également au retour à l arrivée à Martigny-Croix (13% restant) 

[mati]

I have done alot of tests in different driving conditions with my e-tron, and a consumption around 25kWh at 110km/h and 20 degC is a realistic figure.

[Jason-ABRP]

On 4/29/2019 at 9:14 AM, maitrefrodon said:

Hello, 

J'ai le nouveau audi e—tron, j 'ai du régler sur 225 wh/km à 110km/h pour que mon grand trajet de 280km (Martigny-Croix, Genève et retour) corresponde, ainsi je suis au pourcent près à l' arrivée à Genève (57% restant) et également au retour à l arrivée à Martigny-Croix (13% restant) 

 

On 5/2/2019 at 12:20 PM, mati said:

I have done alot of tests in different driving conditions with my e-tron, and a consumption around 25kWh at 110km/h and 20 degC is a realistic figure.

Based on these, should I update the reference efficiency to ~225 Wh/km at 110?  Also, for anyone who has an E-Tron, do you know what options we have for getting live data from the car? Perhaps via OBD or an API that can be accessed?

[mati]

I would suggest to set the reference efficiency to 250Wh/100km at 110.

I have standard 19"-wheels and standard mirrors.

[Jason-ABRP]

On 5/6/2019 at 4:05 AM, mati said:

I would suggest to set the reference efficiency to 250Wh/100km at 110.

I have standard 19"-wheels and standard mirrors.

Rightio, I've improved the efficiency to 250Wh/km (25kWh/100km), let me know how that matches up to your realworld driving experience!

[ev_driver]

Jason,

I've run highway energy consumption tests on the e-tron with many controlled variables.  These results represent a baseline consumption under what I consider ideal conditions.  If I understand correctly, your algorithm will handle weather, elevation, speed, etc.  At some point I'll be running mountain pass tests to understand the e-tron's regenerative efficiency.  This vehicle has the 21inch stock wheels.  Consumption at 65mph was measured at 370 wh/mile but please see this link to see more data and all the parameters and conditions.

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/audi-e-tron-232/highway-energy-consumption-testing-2972220/

Alex

 

[Herman]

Quite a shock until i realized: miles instead of km:-). Thanks! Will have my etron in one month. 

[jokr]

Hi Bo,

I really really like your route planner. I am driving the Audi etron 55 as from may this year  

It serve us very well in the best way to get to our destination and where to charge. You are doing a really great job.

If I want to contribute with the consumption of the car, do I just update de battery percentage while driving (and where do I do this?) or do I need to share data with you in some way or the other?

Cheers Johan

[mjpk]

I'm trying to understand the charge times at regular 50 kW fast chargers, and am wondering whether I miss something. As they seem somewhat long (or rather the charging power seems low).

Example:

Charger: regular 50 kW DCFC
Arrival: 38%
Departure: 80%
Charge time: 55 min (0,916 h)
Battery usable capacity: Appr. 84 kWh

Based on this I'm getting average 38,5 kW charge power (0,42x84/0,916). This seems quite low compared to info from e.g. Fastned which suggests that the average should be close to 50 kW.
https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/360000815988-Charging-with-an-Audi-e-tron

For comparison, I tried routing with Tesla Model 3, and similar calculation gave appr. 44 kW charging power at regular 50 kW DCFC (I'm assuming 74 kWh usable).  If anything, Model 3's charge curve should be (very) slightly worse than e-tron's at 50 kW DCFC: 
https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/360012178313-Charging-with-a-Tesla-Model-3

Here is a link to Google sheet where I put in the numbers from same route that I know, with both cars using the same CCS-chargers.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C0z8Y33EOouUuHuEAPvbzFVL8dmvdiVFq_PsWm1zfDk/edit?usp=sharing

Probably I'm missing something obvious here?

[Herman]

Cannot help you yet: my etron is scheduled for delivery end of July:-). Some delay. 

[Jason-ABRP]

On 6/22/2019 at 2:35 AM, mjpk said:

I'm trying to understand the charge times at regular 50 kW fast chargers, and am wondering whether I miss something. As they seem somewhat long (or rather the charging power seems low).

Example:

Charger: regular 50 kW DCFC
Arrival: 38%
Departure: 80%
Charge time: 55 min (0,916 h)
Battery usable capacity: Appr. 84 kWh

Based on this I'm getting average 38,5 kW charge power (0,42x84/0,916). This seems quite low compared to info from e.g. Fastned which suggests that the average should be close to 50 kW.
https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/360000815988-Charging-with-an-Audi-e-tron

For comparison, I tried routing with Tesla Model 3, and similar calculation gave appr. 44 kW charging power at regular 50 kW DCFC (I'm assuming 74 kWh usable).  If anything, Model 3's charge curve should be (very) slightly worse than e-tron's at 50 kW DCFC: 
https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/360012178313-Charging-with-a-Tesla-Model-3

Here is a link to Google sheet where I put in the numbers from same route that I know, with both cars using the same CCS-chargers.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C0z8Y33EOouUuHuEAPvbzFVL8dmvdiVFq_PsWm1zfDk/edit?usp=sharing

Probably I'm missing something obvious here?

No, actually, that's probably a bug in our voltage curve for the E-Tron (which I'm not sure we have correct yet).  Charging is typically constant-current, voltage-varying up to the taper, meaning the charger will provide constant current at a voltage which matches the car's pack voltage.  If the E-Tron has the ability to pull max voltage from the charger all the way from 0%, then it would indeed pull 50kW all the way through.

If you can find a way to get me voltage readings from 0-100%, perhaps in 10% steps, I can update our voltage curve and that should improve our modelling!

[mjpk]

2 hours ago, Jason (ABRP) said:

No, actually, that's probably a bug in our voltage curve for the E-Tron (which I'm not sure we have correct yet).  Charging is typically constant-current, voltage-varying up to the taper, meaning the charger will provide constant current at a voltage which matches the car's pack voltage.  If the E-Tron has the ability to pull max voltage from the charger all the way from 0%, then it would indeed pull 50kW all the way through.

If you can find a way to get me voltage readings from 0-100%, perhaps in 10% steps, I can update our voltage curve and that should improve our modelling!

Thanks for getting back! Unfortunately I do not have the car myself so don't have the chance of providing this data first hand...  

Perhaps some of the owners here can do that?

[Fernando]

Hi Bo,

First of all let me thank you por your planner. I find it very useful.

I would like to give you some feed back about a return trip I made yesterday with an e-tron Edition one.

On my way I did this, compared with the ABRP:

For the kWh-used I use a 83 Kwh battery capacity.

First conclusion: timing is perfect and energy used a bit les than predicted. (For me)

For the return trip (which is descending) :

Energy used is less till the first stop, then similar, but speed was significant higher. Temperature was also higher and could affect in less consumption as air density was lower.

Thank you

[Frank (e-tron @ Germany)]

On 6/27/2019 at 6:23 PM, Fernando said:

Hi Bo,

First of all let me thank you por your planner. I find it very useful.

I would like to give you some feed back about a return trip I made yesterday with an e-tron Edition one.

On my way I did this, compared with the ABRP:

For the kWh-used I use a 83 Kwh battery capacity.

First conclusion: timing is perfect and energy used a bit les than predicted. (For me)

For the return trip (which is descending) :

Energy used is less till the first stop, then similar, but speed was significant higher. Temperature was also higher and could affect in less consumption as air density was lower.

Thank you

Hi Fernando,

I have my e tron since end of May and starting longer business trips towards the next weeks. I like to log my driving data and provide this to ABRP but have no right tool currently. How did you log the data above, is this excel based, if yes would you share this?

Thanks a lot,

Frank

Edited July 17, 2019 by Frank (e-tron @ Germany)

[Fernando]

Hi Frank,

That's an excel sheet. Planned figures are taken from ABRP.

Find it below. Feel free to make changes and improvements.

I travel about 4.000 km/month and I was thinking to do a data analysis from average speed, temp., height difference to make a better estimation of consumption.

CheersRuta planificada BIO MAD.xlsx