Alpha Feedback - Tesla Model 3

[Jason-ABRP]

To verify and improve our models we need your feedback.  There's many ways we could use help if you actually own one:

• Drive a plan and compare it to the actual battery used.
• Drive a plan with the browser active, and update your actual battery percentage in the browser.
• Contribute data via Tesla API.

The best way to improve the data is to provide data directly from the car.  For Teslas, we can get data via Tesla's unofficial API.  To contribute your data, you can simply log in with your Tesla account on ABRP:

1. Settings ▶ More Settings ▶ My Tesla Login
2. Enter your credentials or Token (We do not store your login credentials on our servers, so you may have to refresh this login in your browser periodically).
3. Select "Share data with ABRP" (This allows us to gather live telemetry while you're driving with the website active in the browser)
4. Select "24h Background Sharing" (This allows us to poll in the background while you're driving, if you don't want to have the browser up in your car)

Thanks for providing feedback!

[CCarter]

I'm not entirely sure if this information is of use to you, but I stumbled across a video of the supercharger recharge rate in a Model 3 with a fairly detailed graph.  I hope it can be put to good use!  

 

 

[Jason-ABRP]

We can actually get that data directly from the car if you log into your MyTesla account on the planner (Under Settings > More Settings > MyTesla Login), but that's exactly the kind of data we need to add new cars, if you come across one for an unreleased 3 or Y, or anything else send it our way too.  We really appreciate it!

[Rav]

Would it be possible to ask route planner to charge my car on the return trip  and not on the outward trip. 

This would be useful because on the outward trip I am headed to a business appointment and would rather not stop so that I get to my appointment on time. On the way home my time is more flexible. I am already leaving fairly early in the morning and while it may not seem like much adding another 20 to 30 minutes is something I would rather avoid.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Rav
Typos

[Jason-ABRP]

Can you send me an example trip I can tinker with? PM me the link if it has any kind of personal addresses you'd rather not share.  There's a few tricks that might work, reducing your goal arrive charge (or charger arrive charge), setting a waypoint "Arrive at" percentage.  The main thing that the planner will try to do is avoid the low-charge ramp-up if possible:

So charging earlier will keep it in the maximum charge speed, thus reducing the overall time spend charging.

[Rav]

This does not need to be private. 

Canada

Ontario

London to Toronto without charging. 

Toronto to London with a charging stop as far into the trip as possible.

We want to get out of the rush hour traffic near North York(part of Toronto)

Also we only want to charge enough to get home (plus some margin?)

 

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=0009baa3-29fd-4b2b-bcb1-646ebbf6af5d

 

[Jason-ABRP]

Aha, I see what's happening here.  The planner is picking that charger since the others along your route only have one stall.  We recently added some "smarts" to the planner, since a charger with multiple stalls is less likely to have issues affecting all chargers.  In this case, you could very easily just pick a charger and "add as waypoint" to force the planner to use what it perceives as a non-ideal charger:

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=0aea6272-f013-4632-8d42-d5264982d16b

[Rav]

Okay. Makes sense. 

Will I then have to keep marking chargers as do not use? I tried one or two and ended up going off route by quite a bit. 

If you change to Tesla similar behaviour. 

I know not easy and early in development stage. Just letting you know that if I have to keep track and figure out what is safe or not I might as well use the plug share app. 

The Tesla web planning tool had the charging take place on the way back. But different battery size I guess. I don’t remember if it has Model 3 base. 

This is an awesome effort!!! Please take my feedback as trying to help. 

[Jason-ABRP]

Of course! We appreciate all feedback, it only helps to improve the planner!

We'll continue to make improvements to charger selection, but until the chargers around you improve, I'm not sure you'll see much change in that route plan.  We'll always try to recommend the "ideal" route, or the fastest route we can find.  Most of the chargers between those waypoints are 40kW, where the charger in the city is 50kW.  The charger in the city has multiple stalls, which makes it a more reliable charger, and thus we prioritize it. 

If you want to override the planner's choice of charger, it's pretty easy (just manually select one as a waypoint), but the charger in the city is "the fastest" choice.

Now, what we may introduce in the future is alternate plan priorities:

• Minimum leg length time (only stop to charge every X minutes)
• Maximum charger stop time
• Optimize for lowest cost

But all of these would require something of an overhaul to the back end planning, so probably not in the near future.

[Rav]

Have you removed the link from the route planner to this stream?

Would you add information bubbles to each value entry. For example what is a goal charge versus charger arrival charge? Reference speed?

Wondering if setting the default values more conservative with respect to change for novice users would be a good idea? Experienced users will know how and when to change values. 

Also outside temperature is very important so maybe have as part of trip planning at the top? Easy to forget to set this or not even know. Maybe even auto populate option from weather source. A trip from London, Ontario to Florida goes from below freezing to 20 celcius or more. Long term having the planner account for the changes would be awesome. We have thousands who seasonally go to florida and back. 

The route table. Would it be more intuitive to have departure column before arrival?

I am attaching the same route planned by tesla versus route planner. Note that Tesla plays it safe and has a 10 minute change on the way back while route planner has no charges at all. This is what had me wondering about the various settings.

 

 

[karki]

The Standard Range Model 3 is now a Standard Plus with a software limited battery.

I believe that means the SR will charge at the same speed as a SR+ for a given SOC, but will just stop at 90%. Will ABRP be adjusted to reflect that?

[Ziger]

Struggling with a few things. 

My my car is configured differently than some. I am not using the aero wheel covers - but should use them on long trips. I see a significant range difference. And I am running 245/45ZR18 instead of the OEM 235/45R18. 

I also have a 2012 P85 on the same account. I find it difficult to select my car from the list and be sure I have the right data associated to it. Would love a “My Garage” place to select and tweak my cars - like changing if the aero covers are on or which wheels I’m using on the S. 

And I would love to know what the “ideal” or calculated speed is on a segment. I generally limit myself to 10 miles above the limit on long drives in Texas. But as some of those speed limits are moving north of 75mph, it can make a significant difference. 

With the refreshed browser, things are a lot easier to use the planner. Thanks for all the hard work. 

Cheers,

Zig. 

[Jason-ABRP]

On 4/12/2019 at 11:41 AM, karki said:

The Standard Range Model 3 is now a Standard Plus with a software limited battery.

I believe that means the SR will charge at the same speed as a SR+ for a given SOC, but will just stop at 90%. Will ABRP be adjusted to reflect that?

Indeed, and we're already accounting for that!  It'll show in-car (and on ABRP) as 100%, but will have the same charge curve that gives you the benefit of the unusable extra battery on the top.

On 5/9/2019 at 8:15 AM, Ziger said:

Struggling with a few things. 

My my car is configured differently than some. I am not using the aero wheel covers - but should use them on long trips. I see a significant range difference. And I am running 245/45ZR18 instead of the OEM 235/45R18. 

I also have a 2012 P85 on the same account. I find it difficult to select my car from the list and be sure I have the right data associated to it. Would love a “My Garage” place to select and tweak my cars - like changing if the aero covers are on or which wheels I’m using on the S. 

And I would love to know what the “ideal” or calculated speed is on a segment. I generally limit myself to 10 miles above the limit on long drives in Texas. But as some of those speed limits are moving north of 75mph, it can make a significant difference. 

With the refreshed browser, things are a lot easier to use the planner. Thanks for all the hard work. 

Cheers,

Zig. 

Interestingly, the "Garage" idea is already on our roadmap, so keep a lookout.

Generally the "ideal" speed is as fast as you can drive.  Your car can charge substantially faster (hundreds of miles per hour) than you can drive, so it's (almost) always more time efficient to drive faster. There are exceptions, and selecting "Slower if Needed" exposes these.

[Younio]

Add an option to avoid specific countries, or even better, areas grouped by schengen or similar areas.

[vdavwil]

I'm curious about a route I planned using both SR+ and SR. I set the SR to start the trip with 100% and the SR+ with 90%. None of the stops for the SR+ had a departing charge over 85%, so I'm not clear why the SR route has an extra stop and 1:15 minutes more charging time when I would think the SR should be able to drive the exact same route the SR+ had in the same way.

SR+: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=d59e93df-ce5b-4032-8914-8ab7b9f2e965

SR: https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=9efe3dd8-ead5-44f8-afab-6a6c22e520b1

[Rav]

Max Speed

Check both...

SR+ 58mph/93kmh

SR 93mph/150kmh

[vdavwil]

15 hours ago, Rav said:

Max Speed

Check both...

SR+ 58mph/93kmh

SR 93mph/150kmh

Not when I bring them up. They both say 93mph.

[Rav]

When I open as provided I get the difference you point out. When I make the adjustment I mentioned both of them come out identical. When I get to my desktop maybe I’ll do a screen video to show you what I did.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Rav

[vdavwil]

I went back and reloaded them. At first I still saw two different routes with the same max speed settings (150kmh). I then changed both to imperial units (which changed the max speed to 93mph), then forced both to replan. It took a couple of tries before they both came up with the quicker route that only the SR+ had. I think maybe the site doesn't like having two tabs open to two different routes at the same time.

Edited May 30, 2019 by vdavwil

[Rav]

Now I get both 150kmh max speed.

I changed both to 100kmh and both are now identical.

 

[StepB13]

For model 3 in Europe, charge connector is COMBO CCS, your site allow to use Tesla supercharger that is not yet upgraded with this connector, like Mont-Saint-Michel, and does not allow to use other charger with combo connector

[Jason-ABRP]

5 hours ago, StepB13 said:

For model 3 in Europe, charge connector is COMBO CCS, your site allow to use Tesla supercharger that is not yet upgraded with this connector, like Mont-Saint-Michel, and does not allow to use other charger with combo connector

This is intentional, for a couple reasons.  Once Tesla finishes retrofitting all sites with CCS (Combo is redundant, as CCS = Combined Charge System) we will drop the Tesla CCS secondary selector.  Additionally, everywhere else in the world the Model 3 does use the Supercharger plug, so it would be a lot of work for a temporary configuration.

[Janolsen]

Tried the planner with a Tesla 3 Standard Range Plus RWD. If trying Trier-Essen in Germany with a 246km distance, and max speed 200km/h, it produced 99km/h average speed and and a need to charge the battery once, after 153km if starting with 90% battery.

From my experience, one cannot drive 200km/h for very long on Autobahn due to traffic (at most 10 minutes during this 2:28hr drive). And the planner's average speed of 99km/h is realistic, due to these circumstances.

Does high speed at even very low duration, entail extreme consumption and thus a need to recharge? The planner assumes 87% consumption of the battery after just 153km of driving!

Or are there some model simplicfications, that makes the planner very wrong under high speed driving?

In comparison, a BMW 330D model E90, can do twice this distance on a full 60L tank at peak 238km/h. Average speed would be about 110km/h, if not being 100% compliant with all posted speed limits.

Considering going electric, but with 153km typical range - I would have to wait for a better battery due to frequent drives on this distance.

[logic]

You can click on the street to see what speed it actually simulates at that part of the route. If the Battery graph goes down rapidly you know where the parts, at which it actually simulates 200km/h driving,  are.
As far as i know, the planner doesnt take traffic into account, so if you set it to 200km/h and that speed is allowed it will simulate driving at that speed. Depending on you driving that is also worst case, which is advantageous to have in a simulation for critical stuff like this.
You can play around with the setting for max speed to see which is faster, because going full speed is seldom the fastest overall speed with an electric car.
Most electrics only have one gear for going forward, which makes them spend increasingly more ressources at increasingly high speeds, its not comparable with a combustion engine car.
From experience, for the SR+, 130km/h should overall be the fastest option.
This means you will take less/shorter breaks and spend more but safer (due to lower speed) time on the road.

At the end of the day, not time spent chargin or time spent driving is relevant, but the combination of both. Look at the total duration and determine if you can live with that time. For long routes it might take more time in winter.

[Bill N]

On 6/13/2019 at 8:43 PM, Janolsen said:

Considering going electric, but with 153km typical range - I would have to wait for a better battery due to frequent drives on this distance.

The quickest plan for that journey (2h30m) is to limit the max speed to 130km/h so that you don’t need to stop to charge.

That’s an average speed of 97km/h (based on a 241km route).

That compares with your suggested 110km/h average in a polluting diesel car, which would save you 17m30s (12% quicker), but cost substantially more in fuel and pollute the areas through which you drive.

Budget permitting, you don’t need to wait for a bigger battery - just a get a Model 3 LR instead of a SR+.