Alpha Feedback - Volkswagen eGolf

[Jason-ABRP]

To verify and improve our models we need your feedback.  There's many ways we could use help if you actually own one:

• Drive a plan and compare it to the actual battery used.
• Drive a plan with the browser active, and update your actual battery percentage in the browser.
• Contribute data via OBD or other methods.

The best way to improve the data is to provide data directly from the car.  Connecting your car not only improves the models, but allows you to follow up directly in the car while driving! We have several ways of doing that, but we need your help to figure out what will work with your car:

• An OBD reader can be used in concert with a custom app like LeafSpy, or a PID list and Torque Pro.
• If your manufacturer has an API to access data from the car we can set up access to that API, like we do for Tesla

If you're familiar with either of these, contact me at jason@abetterrouteplanner.com and I'll help figure out what we need to do to connect your car!

Thanks for providing feedback!

[jpf]

The winter charge times in regard to e-Golf 24kWh are highly optimistic. In the four years I've driven my e-Golf that has not been my experience.

With a temp set to -20C charging from from 28% to 83% in 14 mins are unrealistic. Might work in 20C weather, not in -20C weather. Time would be closer to twice the time.

The charge speed tapers off a lot after 75%. 

 

[Jason-ABRP]

Yeah, that's a known item we need to figure out the best way to implement, no models vary charge speed by external temperature right now.  Charge speed is dependent on internal battery temperature, typically, so we'd have to do modelling to figure out what the internal battery temperature is based on how long you've been driving, how long you've been charging, etc.  

I suppose we could kluge it a little bit by putting a standard multiplier on the charge times when we return them, but it wouldn't be very accurate.  I suppose more accurate than it is now.

[jpf]

Hi, 

thanks for a good reply. 

One other thing. In the e-Golf it’s really not worth it to charge past 75-80%. The general charge time from abt 20% to 75% is the same as charging from 75-100. Charging past 75-80% I would only do if I had to because there was no other chargers to briefly stop at for the next stretch. In Norway we also pay per minute at the charger so it’s really uneconomical also. 

I greatly appreciate that your site now also helps almost all EV’s. Keep up the good work. 

Regards, 

jpf

[Jason-ABRP]

Agreed, we use the charge curves provided by Fastned for the two e-Golf models (link), and the route planner is time-optimized in 5% battery steps, so it'll generally keep your charging in that range.  If it's faster to charge a little bit past 80% instead of going off-route to find a whole new charger, it'll pick that instead. 

It will also account for the "stop overhead", which is the "Time  to Open Charge Port" setting, which is the extra amount of time you assign to each stop to pay at the charger, and initiate the charge.  A higher setting will mean fewer stops for longer charges, lower setting can mean more stops.

Thanks for the kind words! Also, if you've got an e-Golf, we're still looking for a way to connect car telemetry to the site so you can follow your plans in the car (and we can improve our car models).  Does Volkswagen have any kind of telemetry API, or perhaps there's an OBD reader app / PID list that could be used to get data?

[spenceme]

On 11/30/2018 at 8:11 PM, Jason (ABRP) said:

Agreed, we use the charge curves provided by Fastned for the two e-Golf models (link), and the route planner is time-optimized in 5% battery steps, so it'll generally keep your charging in that range.  If it's faster to charge a little bit past 80% instead of going off-route to find a whole new charger, it'll pick that instead. 

It will also account for the "stop overhead", which is the "Time  to Open Charge Port" setting, which is the extra amount of time you assign to each stop to pay at the charger, and initiate the charge.  A higher setting will mean fewer stops for longer charges, lower setting can mean more stops.

Thanks for the kind words! Also, if you've got an e-Golf, we're still looking for a way to connect car telemetry to the site so you can follow your plans in the car (and we can improve our car models).  Does Volkswagen have any kind of telemetry API, or perhaps there's an OBD reader app / PID list that could be used to get data?

It is possible to get battery percentage from Carnet.  Although not documented from what I can tell.  Tibber in Norway has an integration which displays battery % from the car in 1% increments (normal carnet app only gives 1-10 bars).  I have implemented the method into my home assistant, so now I am logging battery percentage one time per hour.  Essentially it is a call to an api with an authentication and you get back a bunch of data about the car, parsing that data you will find battery % as well as several other items.  

OBDEleven is also another possibility.  I have not worked with it, but from reading it should give battery % locally via the OBD port (no carnet needed).  Could arguable be better as you are limited in the API calls to carnet before it gives issues.  

I find pretty good agreement with a few trips made here in the 2018 e-golf, but would always love better models. 

[Jason-ABRP]

That's great news, from your description, polling Carnet frequently enough to get good live data for you while you drive would probably not be useful.

OBDII(2) would be an excellent alternative.  We already support OBDII PID reading via Torque and LeafSpy for several other vehicles (You can read the setup instructions by picking one - EG Chevy Bolt - and going to Settings > Show More Settings > Setup), have you used this on your car to get battery % before? Is it easy to set up, and can you point me to instructions?

[spenceme]

First off, I have not used any OBD2 readers on my egolf.  However, as Torque and LeafSpy work for other cars, I do not know if they support volkswagen.  To date I have mostly heard of OBDEleven (https://obdeleven.com/en/).  More discussions here: https://www.speakev.com/threads/obdeleven-for-e-golf.99649/.  Its not clear to me if Torque will be able to decipher OBD2 information from VW...seems like it could if we knew what message to ask and look for.  

 

[Jason-ABRP]

Oh, that's interesting! I had assumed you had misread OBD II as OBD 11, that's what I get for assuming!

Have you tried OBDeleven before? Do you know if it supports Server Logging (Sending data to a web address)? If so, it may be even easier to set up than I originally imagined.

[spenceme]

I have not tried OBDeleven.  I do not know about server logging.  What I can gather from reading is OBDeleven needs to be connected to the internet to work because it uploads data to Voltas during operation.  This is one of the biggest sticking points currently with that solution...what data are they always collecting that you have no control over, how are they managing that data, and finally the entire obdeleven solution will stop at the mercy of Voltas.  Unlike other obd2 scanner/apps, at least you can control more of this.

Perhaps I can inquire more directly to the obdeleven community.

In the meantime, I do wonder what frequency the car uploads its data to carnet.  I do think it should be possible to get battery % every 5 min or so, which would be useful still.  

[pposthoorn]

On 3/11/2019 at 10:39 AM, spenceme said:

It is possible to get battery percentage from Carnet.  Although not documented from what I can tell.  Tibber in Norway has an integration which displays battery % from the car in 1% increments (normal carnet app only gives 1-10 bars).  I have implemented the method into my home assistant, so now I am logging battery percentage one time per hour.  Essentially it is a call to an api with an authentication and you get back a bunch of data about the car, parsing that data you will find battery % as well as several other items.  

Kinda offtopic: I just added carnet to my home_assistant. I only see the battery percentage with steps of 10% (just as in the app and car, don't understand how they thought that was good enough). How did you manage to get the battery percentage in 1% increments?

[Palengh]

On 3/14/2019 at 11:11 AM, spenceme said:

I have not tried OBDeleven.  I do not know about server logging.  What I can gather from reading is OBDeleven needs to be connected to the internet to work because it uploads data to Voltas during operation.  This is one of the biggest sticking points currently with that solution...what data are they always collecting that you have no control over, how are they managing that data, and finally the entire obdeleven solution will stop at the mercy of Voltas.  Unlike other obd2 scanner/apps, at least you can control more of this.

Perhaps I can inquire more directly to the obdeleven community.

In the meantime, I do wonder what frequency the car uploads its data to carnet.  I do think it should be possible to get battery % every 5 min or so, which would be useful still.  

I have been testing connecting my e-Golf to Home Assistant through Car-Net. https://www.hjemmeautomasjon.no/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=4432

I managed to transféré all data to my Home Assistant using these scripts

https://www.hjemmeautomasjon.no/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=4430

HOWEVER

Car-Net only allows 15 connections before taking the link down (to save battery WV says). Then the car must be started...

[Jason-ABRP]

Can Car-Net retrieve data while you're driving your e-Golf?  That would be the ideal, so we can update your data and you can follow the plan in your car.  Also, regular data points while driving produce the most accurate driving models for the planner.

 

[spenceme]

On 3/22/2019 at 4:08 PM, pposthoorn said:

Kinda offtopic: I just added carnet to my home_assistant. I only see the battery percentage with steps of 10% (just as in the app and car, don't understand how they thought that was good enough). How did you manage to get the battery percentage in 1% increments?

Man in the middle attack against the tibber app to see where/how they get the data.  then i modified the method from the homeassistant integration code for the battery level to point to the new api.  The address needs to be towards https://msg.volkswagen.de instead of https://www.volkswagen-car-net.com/.  the basis for everything else is just robinostlund' repository.

[spenceme]

On 4/21/2019 at 7:39 AM, Palengg said:

I have been testing connecting my e-Golf to Home Assistant through Car-Net. https://www.hjemmeautomasjon.no/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=4432

I managed to transféré all data to my Home Assistant using these scripts

https://www.hjemmeautomasjon.no/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=4430

HOWEVER

Car-Net only allows 15 connections before taking the link down (to save battery WV says). Then the car must be started...

can you link to the actual thread instead of the attachments?  these files are just from robinostlund's repository it appears.  https://github.com/robinostlund/homeassistant-volkswagencarnet

[Jason-ABRP]

Okay, so, Car-Net only allows for 15 connections while the car is off, I assume unlimited connections while on?

What kind of data can be retrieved while driving?  If anyone who has an eGolf wants to work with me directly on adding this for Live Data, send me a PM / email (jason@abetterrouteplanner.com) I'd be happy to tinker and see what we can get.

[Travis]

I've had my 2019 e-Golf (35.8 kWh battery) for a month now, and have just discovered your excellent website. There's a lot I don't yet understand about my e-Golf yet, but I did notice one thing in the owner's manual that you might want to take note of. The manual says that to prolong battery life you should not make consecutive DC fast charges; I interpret that to mean that you should do an AC charge between DC charges. I have planned a couple of long-ish trips with ABRP, and they seem to incorporate consecutive DC charges. Is there a way that you can adjust your model for e-Golfs to put level 2 charges between the DC fast charges? (If you can find someone who understands e-Golf battery chemistry well, you might be able to determine whether you could minimize charging time by doing a full DC charge, driving a little way and topping up with an AC charge, and then driving a long way and doing a full DC charge, and so on.)

 

Thanks,

Travis

[netzkind]

@Travisfast-charging is always non-ideal for any kind of battery, as it creates additional stress (like heat). Thus, Volkswagen tells you to not use it if not needed, because otherwise they could be made liable for shortening the life of your battery.

The same goes for fast-depleting your battery, which is one of the reasons why many BEV have a lower max speed than they combustion-engine siblings. 

As a countermeasure, one could actively cool the battery during use or while charging - but VW decided against that for the e-Golf. Instead, your batteries charging speed may (!) decrease while the battery are still hot - search the internet for rapidgate if you're interested, though that term seems to be mostly used for the Nissan Leaf. 

[Drij]

On 11/9/2018 at 4:19 PM, Jason (ABRP) said:

To verify and improve our models we need your feedback.  There's many ways we could use help if you actually own one:

• Drive a plan and compare it to the actual battery used.
• Drive a plan with te browser active, and update your actual battery percentage in the browser.
• Contribute data via OBD or other methods.

The best way to improve the data is to provide data directly from the car.  Connecting your car not only improves the models, but allows you to follow up directly in the car while driving! We have several ways of doing that, but we need your help to figure out what will work with your car:

• An OBD reader can be used in concert with a custom app like LeafSpy, or a PID list and Torque Pro.
• If your manufacturer has an API to access data from the car we can set up access to that API, like we do for Tesla

If you're familiar with either of these, contact me at jason@abetterrouteplanner.com and I'll help figure out what we need to do to connect your car!

Thanks for providing feedback!

Could you add Zero motorcycles to your list? I have a 2018 DSR with a 14.4kWh batery pack. 50Wh/km with average speed of 80km/h, 65Wh/km @ 120km/h. range driving 120km/h 140km. onboard fast charger 9.9kW. Do you need more info?

[f1geek]

Thank you for the website. I used your site and found my car was pretty close to your prediction. Here is my data for my 2017 VW e-Golf LE (with heat pump):

Start: Bucks Lake, CA, 90% SoC, cool at top of mountain, but was in the mid 80's F in Oroville. 

Charge: EVgo Vacaville Premium Outlets, drove 143 miles in 3 hrs, 29 minutes (it was fun driving fast down the mountain but only using regent to slow down) to arrive at 15% SoC, charged up to 94% SoC in 45 minutes (24.509 kWh), external temp was 93 F in Vacaville.

End: Palo Alto, CA, drove 93 miles in 1 hour, 35 minutes to arrive at 32% SoC, external temps in the 80s F for much of the trip. Battery pack temp was 42 C when I got home (according to OBDEleven).

I set the cruise control at 62 mph on 65 mph roads and drove at the speed limit on slower roads. I drove the whole trip in Eco mode. I forgot to record the trip efficiency, but I believe it was close to 6 miles/kWh overall. Based on the charging data, the pack has 31 kWh usable capacity. Car has 13,000 miles on it and it.

 

 

[Jason-ABRP]

Very nice! Happy it was accurate!

[Palengh]

I was driving my 2018 e-Golf down the highway towards Gothenburg for 90 minutes. I started off with 100% batteries. ABRP estimated a charging point with 22% rest power. The estimated consumption was set to 194 wh at 110 km/h. 

Even so, I managed to go additionally 22 km on the highway and had 24% power left when starting fast charge. 

At average speed 112 km/h I had 19.0 kw/110 km/h average consumption. 

[RonW]

ABRP suggests charging at a level 2 charger at New Milford CT but calculates time too short. Thinks it is DC Fast charger? Also suggests another charger down the road that EVGo indicates is unavailable and out of order.  Very frustrating day.

[Jason-ABRP]

9 hours ago, RonW said:

ABRP suggests charging at a level 2 charger at New Milford CT but calculates time too short. Thinks it is DC Fast charger? Also suggests another charger down the road that EVGo indicates is unavailable and out of order.  Very frustrating day.

Have you checked on the edit link on the charger popup? Perhaps the source we gather the information from has it wrong?

[Martin Mortensen]

I would like to assist in providing accurate driving data for the VW e-Golf 36 kWh, however I need help on how to do this.

I have the ODB11 (ODBEleven) dongle, but how do I transfer data from this to ABRP?

The solution must be some kind of automatic data collection or transfer, to avoid having to do anything while driving. Before and after would be ok.

Let me know what I can do to help